Patrick Barkham comes out with the usual cat hating prejudices. He is engaging with the RSPB’s birdwatch and has noticed a decline in birdlife. Apparently, the cats are responsible for the lack of birds in his garden. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – and, indeed, the RSPB has mentioned it, cats are not the menace for bird-life that arseholes such as Barking Barkham would have us believe.
Despite the large numbers of birds killed, there is no scientific evidence that predation by cats in gardens is having any impact on bird populations UK-wide. This may be surprising, but many millions of birds die naturally every year, mainly through starvation, disease, or other forms of predation. There is evidence that cats tend to take weak or sickly birds.
We have a number of cats. Many of our neighbours have cats. We also have a teeming bird population. Patrick Barkham knows not of what he speaks. He’s a moron who fails to recognise that the domestic cat is a part of the eco-system. It’s the Guardian, so nothing new there, then. Besides, get rid of the cats and watch the bumble bees decline…
Fucking idiot.
If you’ve got an infestation of magpies you’ll have fewer and fewer songbirds till all you’ve got is bloody magpies.
They’re the elephant in the room of the bird world, nasty bloody creatures that will eat every egg and chick they can get their beaks into, deal with them and see/hear the songbirds flourish.
I find cat-haters to be the most sinister of all control freaks. I can at least understand those who hate smoking, alcohol, food, salt etc as they are generally not very bright and susceptible to junk science and innuendo which fuels their prejudices.
But those hating cats are denying nature itself for their own lame and selfish pettiness.
Loved the comment demanding that cats should be kept indoors by force of law. Only in the Guardian, eh?
I have had cats all my life and could count on one hand the birds they have caught. I even had one who used to lie on the grass while the birds fed around him. I would never trust anyone who hated cats.
The problem with cats is not so much related to them predating on bird populations but more the fact that they are free to use everyone’s gardens as their personal litter tray. So long as cat owners are happy enough for dog owners to permit their canines to park a steaming dog’s egg in their gardens I am happy for the current situation to persist.
This canard gets wheeled out every time this topic crops up. It’s nonsense. I love my garden and cats come into it (not necessarily ours). When I was in France, dogs did as well. We get badgers and foxes too. None of this is an issue. I can always bury any droppings. Gardening is always a battle against nature. Any gardener that has a problem with cats should give up gardening, frankly, because if something as minor as this is upsetting them, they have failed to grasp that basic fact. I’m rather more concerned about slugs, frankly.
No, its not nonsense. I have never seen a badger or fox in my garden, not in 40 years. Nor have I seen any evidence of their presence. Badger and fox droppings are different to a cat’s. Dogs have managed to get into my garden once in all that time and they were not there long enough to leave any trace of their passing.
Cats. All the time.
No other pet is permitted to trespass on other property nor to make the level of mess that a cat does. A fact that cat lovers conveniently omit. A bird owner should be free to put their bird cage out in the garden without worryign about cats trying to get at the bird.
And whilst cat owners frequently complain that seeking to restrict a cat to their own property would be “cruel” it is very apparent that such complaints for the lie to the fact that the cat is domesticated. If such restrictions are considered unfair then the cat is semi-wild.
Of course it’s nonsense and you have just demonstrated it when you referred to trespass. Cats have no understanding of trespass because that is a human construct. You are anthropomorphising. The law clearly recognises that cats are semi-domesticated and cannot be confined in the same way that a dog can – because, yes, it is cruel, just as keeping animals in cages in zoos is cruel.
So, you’ve not had badgers in your garden for forty years. Well, lucky old you. I have regular visits and they dig holes in the lawn. Foxes come in regularly too. I’ve never had a mole problem, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. When I was in France, so did neighbours’ dogs. If I came across any droppings I buried it. It takes a minute or two and isn’t worth bothering about. A few years back a heron “trespassed” in my garden and ate all my fish. Should I sue? Cats are no problem whatsoever and the “cat trespassing” bollocks is nothing more than a massive whinge about a trivial matter because some people don’t like them.
Of course, if you have a neighbour with a cat, they could confine it. A nine or ten foot fence would probably do the trick. Naturally, you would have the loss of light to complain about.
Gardening is a battle against nature get over it.
“Of course it’s nonsense and you have just demonstrated it when you referred to trespass. Cats have no understanding of trespass because that is a human construct. You are anthropomorphising.”
Dogs don’t have a concept of trespass either. Perhaps we should let them roam freely as do cats. Doubtless you’d have no problem with a pitbull savaging someone in their own garden. After all, the pitbull doesn’t understand human concepts like trespass.
“The law clearly recognises that cats are semi-domesticated and cannot be confined in the same way that a dog can – because, yes, it is cruel, just as keeping animals in cages in zoos is cruel.”
If it is cruel to keep an animal on your own property then that animal is not fit to be considered a domestic pet. A cat could be walked in the exact same way that a dog is. If it is cruel to keep a cat restrained to your own property then it is cruel to keep a cat. Clearly you are keeping a semi domesticated animal, and you should are thereby interfering with its nature.
“Gardening is a battle against nature get over it.”
Funnily enough cat owners often bring up the “nature” and “you can’t interfere with nature” argument. They tend to be less comfortable with it when a dog savages or kills their cat due to IT’S natural tendencies however. Funny that.
“I have never seen a badger or fox in my garden, not in 40 years.”
I’ve never personally seen a shark, but I’m quite willing to believe they exist. I’m even willing to believe that they, very rarely, bite chunks out of unsuspecting humans too.
‘Anecdata’ is not evidence.
“If it is cruel to keep an animal on your own property then that animal is not fit to be considered a domestic pet.”
Says Mr. “A bird owner should be able to put their caged bird out in the garden”.
Birds are even less domesticated than cats — even professional falconers wear protective gear.
If you see nothing wrong with keeping a bird locked up in a cage, cats are the least of your problems.
Also, do you seriously believe feral cats would respect your garden’s fencing any better than non-feral ones? At least an owned cat is more likely to have been vaccinated against some of the more dangerous diseases.
“If it is cruel to keep an animal on your own property then that animal is not fit to be considered a domestic pet.”
Says Mr. “A bird owner should be able to put their caged bird out in the garden”.
A garden is your property. So your point is…?
It’s pretty obvious. That you can’t or won’t see it says much about you.
You can always tell when someone has lost an argument – they resort to extreme examples and logical fallacies as you have just done here.
As T.S Eliot pointed out, a cat is not a dog. Dogs and cats are not the same. To suggest that they be treated as such displays ignorance of at least one of the species. Not least, the differing social structures and territorial instincts of each species.
The relationship we have with cats and dogs is perfectly natural, as symbiosis occurs naturally among a range of species; us included. Our interaction with and care of these animals will differ because they are not the same; have differing characteristics, environmental needs and diet – so treating a cat as if it was a dog would be cruel.
As I have already told you – but you choose to conveniently ignore – I have lived in France where dogs roam freely much as they did here when I was growing up. Dogs and cats in such circumstances coexist perfectly well as do people. Sure, if a dog wandered into the house, any cats present would have a hissy fit and sometimes one would be chased up a tree. None of this was ever a problem. This, then, is the real world; people, cats and dogs get along with each other just fine.
As it doesn’t fit your narrative, you wheel out some fictitious pit-bull terrier. Yes, I would complain if one came into my garden and savaged someone. Not because of trespass (that is a non sequitur) but because the breed is illegal in the UK precisely because of its savagery and it would be the savagery that caused the tort not some imagined trespass.
If you think that there is the remotest equivalence between a savage dog causing actual bodily harm and a cat wandering through your garden and maybe relieving itself while there, you have some serious issues with your sense of proportion. Certainly you cannot expect any such equivalence to be treated with anything other than derision and I have graced your comments with more gravitas than they deserve.
I get badgers coming into my garden. They dig holes in my lawn. This is not a problem because I choose not to let it be one. If cats coming into your garden is a problem, it is because you choose to let it be one. I suggest you get over it and grow up. You certainly won’t be getting any sympathy from me because you deserve none.
Man has enjoyed a symbiotic relationship with cats for millennia. They will do as they please and the sooner you adjust to that the better. They will not adjust to you and I wouldn’t expect them to. Also, note Sean’s comment about feral cats.
Do you really think I’ve not heard all these canards dozens of times before? I have, repeatedly, and they are as stupid now as the first time I heard them. As Mark mentions below, if you have an argument, back it up with facts, reason and logic. As it is, all we’ve had is a childish whine backed up with logical fallacies and stupid, extreme examples. Given the paucity of your argument (such that it is) it’s time to retire from the field, frankly. I’m certainly not going to grace it with any more of my time. After all, distilled down, it amounts to; “I don’t like cats in my garden”. Well, I’m not wildly impressed with the badger holes in mine, but I live with it.
“You can always tell when someone has lost an argument – they resort to extreme examples and logical fallacies as you have just done here.”
Yes, you can tell when someone has lost the argument. They resort to insults.
“I suggest you get over it and grow up.”
“As it is, all we’ve had is a childish whine backed up with logical fallacies and stupid, extreme examples.”
As for the pitbull example, I could have used any dog. In fact statistical smaller dogs have a much higher frequency of biting than larger dogs. If you have no problem with cats trespassing in your garden then you should have no problem with dogs doing the same. And if they happen to bite someone. Well it is in their nature. You can’t anthropomorphise them right?
No one has insulted you. Pointing out that your arguments are fallacious and stupid is merely a matter of observable fact. Given that you repeated arguments over and over despite them having been addressed becomes tiresome and I was more patient with you than you deserved. Given this, I was remarkably polite. I am not usually when faced with stupidity. Indeed, despite saying I wouldn’t, I am giving your arguments more time now.
Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick! What is wrong with you? Do you have some kind of reset switch in your brain whereby you make a statement, it is pointed out to you where you are incorrect and you simply repeat it in the hope that maybe this time it will work?
Okay, now I am going to insult you. You really are a fucking dense twat, aren’t you? The point above has been repeatedly answered in plain simple English. Can’t you read? And, as I have told you, this argument is done. You didn’t have any valid argument to make. What you did have has been comprehensively debunked. I suggested you leave it at that. But you couldn’t. Now I’m telling you. This discussion is over. You made your point and have had a response. You were incapable of comprehending it. We are done now.
The ‘prophet’ Mohammad loved cats. He’s an Islamophobe!
It always baffles me why some people develop such a hatred of cats. And the desire to keep them cooped up inside (which even some cat-lovers share) is almost as bad.
They’re free-range animals, and if they occasionally shit in your garden it’s hardly the end of the world.
I have to agree with Judd, we have no cat’s near us, last year we had masses of little birds , sparrows, blue tit’s, great tits, robins, finches and I fed them and left out water, I loved watching their antics having mud baths in the flower beds and feeding. Then came a magpie, it swooped in attacked a little sparrow and killed it outright since then the numbers of birds we get have dwindled dramatically, even the pair of Pigeons, who were regular visitors every day at the same time have stopped coming.
I miss the little birds I used to stand for ages watching them it gave me huge pleasure and joy.
Magpies are very aggressive birds and they do attack and kill other smaller species.
I have had many cat’s over the years only one ever killed birds and that was because he was originally a stray and had got use to fending for himself to find food. After he moved in with us he soon stopped when he knew he was getting all the food he need.
In all the years my various family members have had cats and there have been many we have only ever had one cat that was consistently aggressive to wildlife, mainly birds and he was a large ginger Tom that belonged to my brother he caught at least one bird a day and his record in one day was 3 birds. so I guess the moral is there are many factors that contribute to the demise of small birds. But to blame just cats is ignorant and ill informed.
I’ve always found cats beautiful and beguiling creatures and if you actively dislike them (rather than just not wanting one or not being interested) I would always have my suspicions of you. You would be perfectly entitled to be suspicious of me in return of course.
But for “cat”, read “smoker”, “drinker”, “insert hate target of choice”. Criticise cats by all means, advocate control or even eradication by all means. But please do so on the basis of evidence and fact.
I’m probably more of a cat person, but mainly because I used to deliver newspapers as a kid. Dogs were not my friends.
My problem with smokers is the smell, not the person. Tobacco smoke triggers my gag reflex something fierce, so I have no problem with laws preventing smoking in public spaces, or in buses and trains, but I don’t agree with laws banning it on private property. I can choose not to go into a smoke-filled pub: it’s the publican’s problem if he thinks my custom is worth losing. (It is: I don’t drink, I find fizzy drinks taste salty, I’m rubbish at pool, and I don’t understand the point of spectator sports. On the other hand, I do find Al Murray’s comedy persona mildly amusing.)
And birds eat worms. Who speaks out for the rights of worms?
I get plenty of woodpigeons, starlings, the occasional blackbird and robin taking scattered bread from my garden. There is a definite pecking order, magpies come down to swoop over those feeding, only to be chased off by the crows waiting their turn. They’re just like bird police, keeping the thugs under control. We have plenty of kites and sparrow hawks about too. Recently a sparrow hawk tore into its Sunday lunch of blackbird in full view as we dined. We actually seemed to be watching each other.
Despite the high density of cats, we get sparrows, pigeons, blackbids, magpies, robins and various tits. There is also a pair of jays. So the “cats kill all the birds” canard is nonsense.
Not currently ‘owned’ by a cat :-)but there are three perambulate about the premises. Lots of birds including four immense wild parakeets which have escaped and bred (in Hayes me)but as others have said it’s the magpies are the very devil for small birds. It was a fox that killed next doors rabbits not a cat!
“No lock can stop a Lover, or a Cat” old saying.
We have two cats, a fat one that couldn’t catch a cold and a younger one that is a very good hunter. She mainly hunts and eats small rodents but does catch the occasional bird as well sometimes leaving a huge amount of feathers in the hallway. She once caught a magpie, dragged it through the catflap and let it go in the house. We managed to prop the door open and chase it out.
Ours like rats. Live ones in the house can be a problem…
I am, and have always been, a ‘cat person’ rather than a ‘dog person’. I like dogs (in fact I like animals generally), but I prefer other peoples dogs to owning one myself. I love cats for their insouciance; they really don’t give a damn. Kindred spirits, you might say! 🙂
I get pissed off when toms spray in areas of the garden where I like to sit – the smell can be appalling, and is quite difficult to get rid of, but cat shit has never been a major issue.
I’ve had a few cats who have been real ‘birders’ though. Many’s the time I’ve come into the kitchen to make the morning coffee and had to set to and clean up the remains of an eviscerated bird. (Ugh…)The feathers are the worst, because as you try to sweep them up, they just float away.
However, in a role-reversal scenario of ‘the biter bit’, I once went into the sun lounge (door to the garden was open) to witness a new kitten race in at the speed of light, hotly pursued by a raptor (a buzzard).
It (the kitten) took refuge under the chest of drawers, but then I was left with the problem of an aggressive raptor who couldn’t find his way out of the sun-lounge. It wasn’t a huge bird, but it’s beak and claws weren’t exactly cuddly.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I donned a pair of gardening gloves and then spent the next ten minutes leaping round the sun-lounge like a lunatic until I finally bagged it and was able to release it outside. I still have the photo of me holding this fierce-eyed, very pissed-off bird before I let it go.
But all in all, I like cats, and cats like me.